Exploring the Depths: Religion as a Pimp with Marshall Quinn

Foreign.

Ladies and gentlemen, good afternoon and good evening. Welcome to another episode of the Secular Foxhole Podcast. Today we have a special guest. I came across this gentleman on Substack.He writes several articles on reason and philosophy, and his name was Marshall Quinn Marshall.He describes himself as a, quote, tortured soul, and not that I'm laughing at that, but he says he's an intellectual, has deliberately chosen to swim against the powerful postmodern current in politics, in society, and even in my personal and his personal relationships.By refusing to conform to his prevailing cultural sphere, he's largely been pushed into isolation and denied meaningful entry into the marketplace of ideas. I hope that's not true, but I know how hard it is to be honest in some areas. And he says that philosophy is the wholesaler of reason.And we might go into what that means further in our discussion, but the reason he's here today is he wrote a specific article called Religion is a Pimp. Marshall, how are you?

I'm very good. Thank you so much for having me. And I look forward to this discussion.

Yeah, we are recording this during a special time. It's Easter Saturday.

That's right. And your subtitle, Marshall, is How Faith Prostitutes Philosophy and Sells out the Human Mind.I want to, I specifically want to obviously hone in on that particular aspect, but you claim that religion hijacks man's hunger for meaning. Can you explain what you mean by that?

Sure. Okay, so why don't I turn it around and ask you based on.Since the audience hasn't read the article, we can only see we can, we, we're talking about it. So, you know, and to sort of maybe attract people to read it.So the question, the question is my, my essay claims that religion hijacks man's hunger for meaning. What does that mean to you? What does that mean to you? Since you've read the article and how would you interpret it? And then I'll, I'll dive in.

Well, I, I, I would have to go Back to what Ms. Rand if says that religion is a very primitive form of philosophy and that it was the earliest explanation of things in the world and in and around, around the world and around human beings and even human beings. But once Greece came on the scene, if you will, men discovered philosophy and that means discovered reason. They could think for themselves.They could, they were able to grasp life and meaning and reality. And I'll, I'll delve into a little bit.I, for the, When I was a young boy, I was just completely bored by the ritualistic gatherings of, you Know of every Sunday go to church, listen to the, you know, listen to the sermon and then go to Sunday school, blah, blah, blah. But it, for me it just was so boring.And as a young, as a young boy, I didn't realize, know these terms, but it, I was like 9 or 10, I became an atheist, even though I had no idea what that meant at the time. But I just, it was just such a, it doesn't make any sense to me.And at, at a young age we're talking about the difference between faith and reason, I think. Does that make any sense?

Yeah, it's a really broad abstraction, but let me just put out the main concepts that will answer this question. And that is what is justice on Earth?

Okay.

And, and, and, and what, which moralities are competing on earth at the moment as human beings? And, and what are the, what is, and what is the function of the mind?The mind is, is, is the value, is the, as the essence of, of man, of man's like survival. It's the tool of our survival. Right. And agreed.

Yes.

And what's happening is that the religion is offering the unearned, which is unjust. So it is the desire for the unearned that religion exploits.And this is all in Atlas Shrug, you know, so it's, it's, and what, what the religion, what, what the church is supposed to sell to, to them, to, to human, to other people is the wisdom of, of, of selfishness, of, of egoism, of being rational, of having achievement. But what they do instead is they sell altruism. So what they're doing is they're giving you a reit.They're giving you an inferior product when you went in and it was advertised as being rationality and your mind and happiness, and they give you death. They're not selling the morality of life, they're actually selling the morality of death and they're presenting it as life.So they're giving you the exact opposite of what you think you're getting. Because that's what the inverted code of morality does. It turns like the vices into what you get, you know, it turns vices into virtues.And so because they do not want to accept that man has to live by his mind, by choice. They want an automatic choice. They want an automatic sense of value. So it's like the pursuit of this pseudo self esteem.And they give that to you and say, oh, as long as you believe in God, as long as you follow him to go to the church now, you, you can have, you can be a good person. So you're going to get some goodness.You're going to have this little badge to say, yes, I'm a good person, you know, I'm moral, you know, but you're not.You, you're actually just, you're actually just a sacrificial animal because now they've sold you altruism and now you're going to be living as a sacrifice, as a, as iron ran, you know, turned set. A sacrificial animal. And you now are going to, you, you're going to have to, you're prostituting yourself.And so the, the John and the prostitute or the whore and John are the same person. The one is, is trying to get unearned matter and the other one is unearned spirit.So the one and both of them are, are trying to get the unearned both in matter and in spirit. And that's what they're selling. They're selling the unearned.And, and then they wonder why they feel that the world is crumbling around because they've given up. They are giving, they're giving the anti mind, they are anti mind and they're not, they're anti life. So they're not actually.And the other question that you had, what was the next question you said.

Number four, I believe, which would describe,.

What did I mean when I described the fearful soul? What would you say is that you can just come up with any word, any word. I, I won't, I'll tell you which, which words I, I chose.But you know, you can. It, it doesn't have to be one thing. It, the way you describe it.

What would you describe the entry, if you will, into religion is they made it so easy. Let's say you, you've reached a point in your life or, or point in your day where, okay, I'm in a mess, I can't figure things out.And religion comes along and says, turn all your troubles over to Jesus. Let him into your heart, let him into your soul. And he will, you know, he will take care of you.So you're, in a way, you're surrendering your own ability to handle daily life or whatever horrible situation you might find yourself in.

A good situation, they need, they need victims. Somebody's going to fit the bill for the person who is going to be doing the evading and not thinking. And that's social.That's what socialism, that's, that's what, that's how they justify socialism, you know, so yeah, it's, it's a, it's a system of injustice so that they can get the men of the mind to, to live for the others. And so John G Was the first man who said, you know, I, I live for my own sake. We exist. Life isn't in itself.And they don't, they don't have any concepts of that idea that they, they believe that everyone must. They, they think that their, their standard of, of life is animal. Is the animal standard. And so, and, but they are human beings.So you are a human being. You have to be live according to your nature. And they don't want to do that.That's why they, they try, they try to cheat nature by getting other people to live with them to create the standard of living that human beings, that new human beings have to work for. And they don't want to, they don't want to work for it. So, so they need to advocate the morality of altruism which, which then serves their ideal.Their moral ideal is sacrifice. Is, is sacrifice. That's their end. That's the end in itself for them. And so an Rand just says, it says it so well. But I mean it, it's. Let me find it.I'll just find a little. I think I just underlined it.

Take your time. We'll find it.

Yeah, so it says. Yeah, here's a good one.A being who does not hold his own life as, as the motive and goal of his actions is acting on the motive and standard of death.Such a being is a, is a metaphysical monstrosity struggling to oppose, negate and contradict the fact of his own existence running blindly amok on a trail of destruction capable of nothing but pain. Because, because if you try to negate your, your actual identity, then that's that, that's how you do it.You, you, you have to get, you have to fake it.You have to fake your sense of self esteem, which is to say that I, which is to have money to get the product of the man's mind but not actually have the cause of the value.So then the woman becomes the representation of the matter that he desires and then he uses money that he didn't earn and, and then she gets the, the matcha that she didn't earn, which is the money, you know, so it's, they both seek the unearned and, and then you have, it's a degraded, it's like a. What did I say? It's, it's like I said, an inferior product.But to answer the question, the fearful soul is, is those who, is those who fear death and, and, and, and, and Then who live with death as the standard of value.Ironically, you know, it's a, it's, it's, it's, they, they, they so scared of death and of, of, of the thing, you know, of the, that they, that they become, that they make it their God. And that's what death, that's what God is. It's death. It's like nothing and it's, it's the same thing as, because it's a non entity.So they don't want to hold life as the highest value. They have to hold death because death is mysterious and it's omnipotent, it's forever. But they don't realize life is forever.Life is the thing, it's the actual standard of value. So they switch it upside down and that's why it all goes, as they say in England, pear shaped.

Ah, I really appreciate what you said though because Ms. Ram points out that, you know, life, life is the standard of value and your life is the, should be the standard of you, of what you value or your own value.

Yeah.

When I first real came across that, that was the awakening I had when I first read the Fountainhead when I was like 24. That was almost 50 years ago.

Just,.

It was all the questions I had that I never realized or I never formed into actual questions in my mind.And there, there they are and you know, and you could see, even though it was a fiction, you could see people living like this and it was such a, I don't want to use the word revelation but, but nonetheless it was quite a epiphany. Yeah, maybe that's quite, quite a, it's.

A race like I found. Yeah. I must say I wanted to say one, I, I was a mystic when I was young.I, I, I was, I started out as a, as a mystic with, with a glorification of, of the snap morality of death. Because I was, because I grew up in a religious background.So I took it literally and it was only, it was you, only you realize that one of the things I was going to say is that where was it? I write a note. Is that. Where is it?

Take your time again, take your time. While you're looking for that, I'll just again mention that Marshall Quinn's work is available on Substack.And this particular article again is called Religion is a Pimp How Faith Prostitutes Philosophy and Sells out the Human Mind. And we're talking about, oh here it is.

We're talking about the sale of ideas and religion is a business that sells ideas and, and they want to sell altruism, they want to sell self sacrifice because it serves the interest of what I would, would call the moral cannibals. What I would use the word the moral, the moral cannibals. It's a strong term, I think, and it's accurate.So, but what I, what I was going to say is that you cannot sell selfishness and capitalism with religion. With religion, you, you need to sell it with something like self selfishness.Or you have to, you have to sell selflessness in order for it to make sense otherwise.Because if you pursue your self interest, then you won't, you won't, you won't sacrifice yourself because it's like, why would you give up your own self if you, or your own values to, for somebody else who wasn't doing that themselves? It doesn't make, it doesn't work. So they have to use a different advertisement for their product because their product isn't actually good.So they have a very inferior product and they're advertising it as being, as being better. And that's, you know, and it looks nice on the outside, but it's really, actually. Exactly. It doesn't have any value. It's not substantial.So what I wrote was just as you can't sell self selfishness and capitalism with religion, you can't sell selflessness with reason.Because, you know, they've always said, like, there's no rational reason why Immanuel Kant's philosophy, there's no, there's no rational way to, to justify selflessness. Like there's, Ayn Rand said herself, like, there's no, there's no reason to be selfless. Why, why would you give up yourself? Why? There is no reason.There is if you're living and you want to live. Your desire to live is. If you don't have that desire to live, then you sacrifice. Then you're a suicidal animal. And that's the whole thing.So the human beings that do not desire to live, they do not want to think. Only the people who want to live, who choose to think because they have the desire to live. And if they don't, then they, if they don't desire life.

Yeah.

Then they become, they practice the morality of death. They don't desire to, they don't want to think, they don't want to live as human beings.So they're in a complete denial, self denial because they, they're born as a, you're born as a human being, so you don't have the choice to be, to be a human being. You come into this world. But a human being is not like an animal. The whole like in the beginning of John Gold's speech, very beginning was, was.Let's just go back was that there's one.There is only one fundamental alternative in the universe, existence or non existence and it pertains to a single class of entities, to living organisms. Then it goes to say that it is an animal. An animal is unable to decide to choose the evil and act as its own destroyer.And it's true, a man, only human beings. And I might have made this mistake. I might have made this mistake because I included animals to have as having volition.But I might have been wrong about that because I think animals, Animals have an automatic choice. They do have knowledge, but they have an automatic. They have an automatic code of morality which acts in their best interests.If they don't have enough knowledge, which they don't because their brains are not the village, then they die. And, but they cannot, they don't kill themselves. You know, only human beings can choose to be evil. They can choose to lie.They can choose to, you know, to be their own destroyers. And so. But then Galt says, you are not free to escape from your nature, from the fact that reason is your means of survival.And that's what they're trying to escape. You see, they don't want to think, they don't want to accept that their actual, their metaphysics, the nature of their own reality.The fact that they are. That you are a human being and you have to live like one. And they, they have to. They like. Look at this article, the article that I just wrote about.What's his name? Bartes. He was a famous French theorist, semi autician and influenced advertising industry. I think he influenced the communications sector.And, and he, he had the same idea that we're animals, that we are pretending to. That that reason is. Is an illusion and that we're, that this capitalism, the capitalist society that we're in is. Is a myth. Complete denial of.Of the rational mind absolutely completely. And, and. And like a rejection of. Of. Of the. Of logic and, and of the men of the. The men who, who work to create all the products and the things.So it was like he just wanted all. All the luxuries of. Of French, you know, bourgeois like life.But he didn't want to acknowledge that there were actually men that, that the types of people who deserved it.It was like more like he thought that oh, we should just be like animals and, and given all these luxuries and not ever been required to understand how they work or how. How they. How to create them. And it's so it's really. It's. It's. It's. It's like he chose to put over. Put this myth over, to put this to. To.To devalue the power of. And the of. Of man. Of man's mind, efficacy of reason. Yes. Yeah. To. And to undercut the. The virtue, the virtues of. Of human. Of human life. It's.It's like almost like. Oh, you know, we. We don't want. We don't want to acknowledge the good. It's. We're all, you know, it's. It's. It's the same. So that's the thing. It's. It's.He's not a Christian, you know, he's. He. He's like a. He's a secular socialist, you know, Mark. It's Marxism really. And. But it's the same. It's this at the.It's the same product with a different brand. So. Sure, the, The. The. The Christians are just. They have the monopoly. They've had the monopoly for much longer. So postmodernism is. Is like.It's like the, the new branch.They're trying to kind of compete with Christianity now because before, the left would have just used brute force and it would have been like Stalin or would have. But right now what they're doing is chaos. They. They use. Invite chaos instead of using, like.Instead of having tanks lined up outside taking over all the business establishments. They. They just do it by corruption of society. And, and so they can actually get people to volunteer to. To have socialism.

That's.

One half of America is actually like signing up for communism. You know, it's. It's signing up. They're doing it, volunteer. That's what altruism does. It does what force would have to do with it. Does what.What you would. You can only achieve through force. They do it without force. They do it through. Through consent. And that's, that's how they're doing it. The.

It reminds me of when I lived all over the country and, and when I was in the. Not even when I lived in the South, I heard this expression, God said it. I believe it. That settles it. And.

Probably heard that once, of course, before. Yeah.

And then. So that's that.I wanted to say that before I, I jumped to one of the questions I had, and that is, what should be the moral responsibility of individuals who, quote, pay unquote, for counterfeit certainty? Are they victims, collaborators, or both?

Well, first you have to answer the first question, and that is I would say don't seek the unearned in matter or in spirit.If you, if you desire the unearned, then you're going to fall for it because it's like, it literally is, it is like the analogy of the forbidden fruit. The forbidden fruit in my mind is the unearned.And if you take that apple, you will go into, you will have guilt, you will become guilty if you, if you try to reverse the law of cause and effect because you're, you're now living to acting, you're becoming unfit for existence or unfit for survival.And, and that will, that will cause fear, mortal fear, you know, so, so, so that's the, that's, I guess that's, there's many answers to that, that question. I, I. Obviously the simple answer is you have to think. You know, you have to think, you have to use your mind. You can't become anti mind.There's no shortcut. You have to, you have to enjoy thinking. You have to maybe cultivate the desire to want to live and, and love your life.And I was often asked the question, am I born, are you born a lover or are you born a hater? You know, it's. Sometimes people seem like they're born evil or maybe that they don't. They choose, they must choose. That's the nature of human beings.So nobody is actually born, that is born evil. You're born with a choice. And if you choose evil, then it is a choice. And so it has to be.Otherwise there would, otherwise there would be no such thing as morality or it would be absurd. So that answers that question. But I mean I keep on doing these calculations like even in real time, you know, so reinforcing basic.

You triggered something else when you said you're not born evil. Well, that takes care of original sin. Yeah, I mean that's the entire planet human is based on that.That's like the fundamental, that's where morality starts. Right. Think in my mind, that's where morality starts for religious people.

But that's a contradiction.How can, if you're born evil, then morality is, it's a mockery of morality because now it's saying that you, that you had no choice in the first place. So, so if that whole argument is ridiculous, really, it's really ridiculous. I mean, that's why I say this is, I just said pathetic.This is pathetic because I mean when you think that we're actually arguing about it, that intellectuals like smart people actually even debating this, it's it, it's, it seems embarrassing sometimes because you think, well, we're human beings, we've been around for like thousands of years and, and we're still contemplating these things. These, this should be common knowledge, you.

Know what I mean?

And it's just, it really is sometimes mind blowing. It's insane to think that people, especially.

In modern America, reality, they haven't heard.

About a tabla, rasa and whiteboard or that you fill it out yourself and you decide.

Aristotle's tabula rasa. Yeah,.

Yeah. I mean, even the modern object, even the objectivists today, I'll go into that.They are, to me, like, the more they're competing with the Christians as well. They see, I think, to me, I see them as like rivals or as like envious of the, of the Christians, of the conservatives.And they want that role, they want that position. Except they have a, they have, they're also selling in many ways, I think they're selling altruism under the name of Objectivism, under Ayn Rand.I mean, can you believe it? You get Objectivists, and they may not be doing it deliberately, actually.I think, I think it's just because they haven't checked, they just haven't checked their unconscious convictions or they haven't done an introspection. So they like to think that consciously maybe that they are. Yeah, I think I understand what you mean.

And I'll just throw this out there and we can pick that apart.I think when you look at their, most of their stance on immigration, complete openings, that I think they're, they're projecting America and objectivism, okay? It's the ideal society. They're, you know, they're projecting way ahead. But the reality is the mindless horde is now among us.

Yeah, they're mobilizing. They're mobilizing the mob.And by doing so, it shows that unconsciously they have an implicit bias against the men of ability and they seek to enshrine the mediocrity. And that's, that's, that's what they're, that's what, that's what they're doing.Regardless of what they say they're doing, that's what, that's the result of their actions. So I, I judge them. They, they might speak very eloquently about objectivism and, and advocate, you know, the right, use the right rhetoric.But, but when I look at Trump, he doesn't have the rhetoric, but he has the actions. So he's doing the things that are, that are serving the sovereign state.You know, the sovereign of individualism in America, but that he's not necessarily like the intellectual who's, who's speaking about it. So he, he just, he's, he's. And you know, and he might not even, you know, he's just, he's just in it. He is sort of.Maybe he's doing it, doing it, doing it, doing the right thing by accident.

He wants to do transactions quickly.

Yeah.

Yeah.

There's a quote from Aristotle which is quite interesting, Conrad. It's very complex. I don't want to go into. It's. It's very interesting. But it just.Basically it's when you, when your judgment is wrong on a topic and you do what is. And you, and you do. But your judgment, what is right and wrong is, is wrong.And then you do the wrong thing, then you're actually doing the right thing, you know, and you didn't know it because you had, because you had the wrong morality.So, so if you, if you, if you think, oh, selfishness is wrong, but then you decide then you're a Christian and you've been taught, oh, I mustn't be selfish, and then, and then you end up doing something selfish, you, you end up doing the right thing, you know, because even though it's wrong according to the code that you live, that you, that you consciously think you're supposed to live. And, and it happens with Objectivist as well. So they think they have the right code in their mind, but they, they, so they, they, they do.It's just the reverse, you know. Of what? Of that, of that scenario. So.

Yeah, my, my, my comment here, and then we continue is relate to this Easter and my favorite movie, Chocolat that is coming during Lent. And then Easter is starting and then mother and a daughter is coming to a small village and open a chocolaterie during Lent.And people are, you know, opposed that and especially the mayor and he is also taking care of a church and he sees them as a threat. And there it's a scene. I don't want to spoil it, but they are some children asking, have you heard that she's not as we. She's an atheist.And they don't know what that is. But then they open the shop and they go in and eating chocolate and say this is tasteful and joy and I enjoyed it.But the mayor and the church said it's sinful. And then you have this interesting climax at them and so on.I think that's during this time to look at that you can enjoy it as it is, but also think about the fundamental ideas in that movie. So we have to point that out in a. In a good way. I think so. Yeah. That's my take on it during these times.

It's interesting.

You know where Felidian has that place still around here in Sweden. I said we. I remember when we had a conversation where at the conference and, and they said, I mean, Sweden is a secular society. Right.We don't have so much outspoken religious people. Maybe it's like 10%. And in America it had been the other way around, like 90%. Now it's going in the right direction.

But.

But here in Sweden we, We believe that the state is doing miracles. Is that. And now the environmentalist is taking over as a religion.

Yeah, they more lean towards force. So. Yeah, so it's, it's. So it's either. So fraud and force, you know, the two means of faith and force.

Yeah, faith and force are.

Yeah, faith is tied with the fraud. Right. So that's why I say they have to fake it. That because they faith, the whole is. Is.Is like a sense of, oh, I'm a good person, you know, I'm a Christian and I believe in Jesus. And you know, and meanwhile it is.

A scene where also in Chocolat that one person when he's doing so called a bad thing against his partner and then he goes to the mayor and the church leader, so to speak. Is it okay if I do some of the Maria and you know, go to the conviction. Well, how do you say conviction?No, the stand that you go into the priest and about forgiveness.

Oh, concession or what is called confession.

Confession, yes. Is that okay to do that? But then it was so dramatic thing that he done that even the mayor and the church said no, you have to leave his town.So I think it's really interesting how you could put this in. In a movie to get to reflect on that.

So Marshall, I want to. Not that I want to cut you off, Martin, if you have.

All right, thank you. Well, thank you.

Thank you. And that's a good point. I want to kind of reframe one of my questions and say religion and altruism have had two millennia head start on objectivism.So how. How can we, you and I, in our daily lives approach and explain selfishness? How can we explain. Well, I, you know, I guess it would depend on the.On the context and the situation that you find yourself in. And we are. And you pick your battles, so to speak. But in order for more people to understand what. Where we come from, how.How can we address how can we address these issues without alienating people in general? That's a big question.

I know.

Or loaded question?

I wouldn't say it's loaded. I mean, it's a very important question to consider because we are, we are.We have to survive in a society and we can't do what they happened in, in, in Atlas Shrugged. If we can't do that, then we have to simply guard our souls and not become like them.And, and just even though you're surrounded with them, you have to keep your boundaries, I think, so that you're not fighting against people, you're fighting against the ideas that, that they have, that ideas are, are really the thing that. So I, I've always just taken idea, like, seen ideas as like, paramount. I think that that's the main thing.Different distinction between intellectuals and. I feel like Ayn Rand and the mystics of muscle or of faith is that they take ideas, like, as the most important thing.And that is because the mind is the most important value. And so no matter where you are, like, if you're surrounded with your enemies, you just fight. You're almost surrounded with ghosts or with corpses.And if you look at it like that, then you're not really fighting against. You don't have any enemies.And I think the main thing is not to have groups, not to have this group and that group, because even the conservatives have sects and they fight against each other. And, you know, so it's the constant.And that's why when you see the Objectivist team up in little tribes and groups, they've already made collectivism their, Their code.And it's not so they're just, they're just, they're just repeating it almost like, like, oh, darn, I just fell into the same pattern or, you know, the same cycle. It's like they just, and they didn't realize it, you know, sort of.Oh, but no, but, but look, we've got the Bible in our hands and we've got Atlas Shrugged or, you know, it doesn't make any difference. They're just doing. They're still doing the motions of. They're going through the motions, but they've kept the same heart. So I think C.S.Lewis had that, had, that had a book that was. I can't remember what's called something, but I, I quote, I, I have it on my substack.And he said that he called them the Men Without Chests, and Ayn Rand said it was the. Remember Men Without Chests.

I remember that quote, but I can't remember which article it was in.

So he wrote a short not book and that was the topic. And if you go to my substack, I've got it there.I haven't read the book, but I read an article about the book that was very informative, illustrating the idea that men have knowledge but they don't have courage or they have strength but they don't have courage. Is that the measure of men or something like that? Yeah, Ayn Rand said that we had like in the fountain.

I remember it was.

She said that, that, that, that, that Dominique Franken was, Had strength and, you know, she was wealthy and everything, but she, she didn't have this like, the courage to, to, to stand up for her, you know, for how it, how it worked, you know, so she tried to destroy him, you know, and, and just this is. That's, that's, that's really what, what it boils down to.So when you say, like, I, I'm not shy, you know, it's because, because I know the empower, the power of ideas and, and so I, I'm not afraid of using, of, of, of standing up for them because I know that I have a very powerful weapon in my, you know, in, in my artillery.

Well, that's true.

That's true.

That's true.

Yeah. So if you believe, if you know that, then, then you, because you realize that that existence is at stake. Like the human man's life is at stake.So, so. And you. Yeah, you can't lose with reason. That's why, you know, reason is, is. Is what they're trying to.Is what they're trying to escape, but they can't. So it's, It's. That's why I wrote that, you know, the almost the immortality of reason. It's, it is the, it is the, like the default.Like, it is the fact that you need reason to. Man has to use reason. You don't use faith. It's just a fact. And so, so you, you know, I had. It's.

Yeah, thank you for that. And I ran. Sums it up even better than you and I just. Because I just. Her quote just popped into my head and they. Let's see. Faith is. What is it?Faith is the shortcut. Destroying the mind or faith is the. I. Oh, shoot. But I can't remember the exact quote.

But yeah, I also thought of it like religion is like the canned food.

Canned.

Or like the fast food. It's the fast food of philosophy, you know, so it's easy, you know, you don't have to make it. You just Eat it. And, and you know, it makes you.It makes you sick, you know. And yeah, that's, that's the way I see it. It's also what Iran said it was a primitive form, as you said, a primitive form of philosophy.

Right.

And yeah, I look at it as, as just the fast food, you know, the junk. The junk food. It's of an inferior quality. So really what you. I think what you should do is. Is. Is. I think what we should do is.Is to elevate objectivism at an aesthetic level. Because a lot of. Because, because if you present something in a beautiful way then. And through arts, you know, then it's more attractive.And if, and the problem is, is, you know, sometimes Ayn Rand said herself that she, she wasn't exactly the most like Vogue, you know, like, like, you know what I mean? Like, she did. She didn't. She wasn't stylish. You know, it wasn't sometimes the most stylish. The most people who don't have, like the most attractive.You know, they don't.

They.

They're not a good advertisement for, for something, you know, so, so that's really. So you have to look past appearances and see reason, you know, and also.Yeah, to stylize something, you know, sort of, you know, like the Nazis, they, they, they were very stylish the way they, they use Hugo Bus to do the suits. You know, if men wear suit today, if men wore suits and polished their shoes and wore, you know, jackets and took care of himself and didn't.Didn't look overweight, you know, it would make a big difference, I think, to how. How, how you can, how you can advertise, you know, a, A, A way of life. And so I always thought of America as being.America used to be like the best country. You know, it was like the coolest nationality to be. Like there was a time where the world was, Was in awe of, of the American, but not anymore.You know, America is. The American is. Has.Has not has not had that status, that sort of prestige of, of being, you know, having the best biggest like industries now, you know, the best. It still has, like, it still has, but it, it's been corrupted, you know, with, with woke philosophy.But like, for example, yeah, all the, A lot of the inventions that were.

Only available in, in America.

That's why Trump wants to make America great again. It sounds so cliched and so kind of unstylish.

You know, people go to, you know,.

People wouldn't rather read like, Vanity Fair, Vogue magazine, you know, because that's like the cool sort of the, the art world. You know, it looks more attractive and so, and, and it's just unfortunate that they've bought into altruism because. And then again, look at churches.Look how beautiful churches are. You know, the architecture. And, and I mean, I think it's fine to go hang out.I personally, I think Hinduism is my favorite religion and I don't think there's anything wrong with reading the Bible or learning about the lessons in the Bible because there are very good lessons of cause and effect, the stories about morality in the Bible. And that's how they, because there's a lot of good in the stories of the Bible. There's no doubt about it.It's, it's, there is actually lots of, a lot of good moral lessons in the Bible. It's just that it's tainted with, you know, it's, it's got, it's a mixed, like a mixed economy.So it's, so you've gotta, you, you've got to extract the goods parts and, and, and use that to sell reason and then eventually the, the poison will, will dilute. It will become diluted, which, and, and, and they won't be able to use it to, to, to corrupt the mind.Because, because you, you don't have to be, you don't have to. You can still have your mind and read fiction or watch a movie, you know, and know that it's just a movie.But the problem is, is that, is that if they use religion to, in it, to, to teach like the way literature and fiction does, you can still, you can teach philosophy using religion. It's just, you know, you have to distinguish between the metaphysical and the man made.And that's, that's, and that's really, that's why, that's why I'm focusing on metaphysics. Because, because that's, that because you know, you know, a movie is fake when you, or is fiction when you're watching, you don't believe it.You just see it as a story. And, and so, you know, so that's, that's the way I, I, I wouldn't want to turn against. And they're very good Christians.You know, there's some very good people that are Christian. And, and they, they don't necessarily. Yeah, they are, they become what they teach.They say this, you know, so forgive me for Father, for I have sinned, you know, and they become sort of.

What.

They start to sort of act in the way that, in the fiction that, that they've been. That, that they've been taught instead of, you know, because they don't want to do their own thinking. So they end up like a self fulfilling prophecy.They create their self fulfilled prophecy.So because they, because they buy into the moral code of altruism and then they get the, the, the, the depravity and then they say, oh, we're all depraved because they've been, you know, it's, it's like they, they've already asked, they're following the code of altruism. Of course they're gonna, it's gonna lead to, to the black mass. That's where it goes. That's, that's the logical conclusion of it.And so they, they ask for it and then they, but they haven't because you see. Yeah, so we're, we're just, we're just kind of enlightened. This is the Enlightenment. We are the discoverers of morality.Like, just like the founders of the United States, we discovered that we are, we, we are holding that torch of individualism. And I appreciate that.

That's a good, that's a very good thing.And I want to, I want to jump back to my, one of my questions that I, that I wanted want us to discuss and that I, I'm pretty sure you and I agree that.And certainly in 21st century in America, but around the world, the science of philosophy has been destroyed by its own practitioners because of, well, I'm going to lay it, I will lay the blame on Kant. Separating fact from value from, you know, reality from valuing. That's my, my take on what's happening today.Because you, you have people coming out of universities that, that, that, you know, they don't even have any type of comprehension, reading comprehension or they can't think beyond the range of the moment. They've taught, they were taught what to think, not how to think.And so they're basically, you know, does that, again, does that make, does that resonate with you in any sense? In any sense?

Which question was this?

This was number, number three.

Okay. Yes.Well, yeah, I mean, I think Christianity and postmodernism or progressivism or what we call modern liberalism is the new version of Christianity that's been rebranded and it incorporates all the other religions like Islam. It's, it's united against Christianity because of the ethnocentric of, of the United of Americans.So it's, it's, it's trying to overturn Christianity and in the same time it's overturning capitalism or it's revolting against capitalism. Because the capitalism in Christianity is, is, is, is a package deal.And so now they have to go against Christianity, so they're going against capitalism. And that's, and that's their mistake. Because we could actually convince.I think, I think a lot of liberals today, so called liberals, you know, modern, the modern liberals, except for the ones that are, are actually deliberately evil.Most of them would probably be in favor of capitalism, of capitalism if they actually sought and how, if they experienced it because they're not, they're people who want to work hard and are creative, you know.So the reason why they, the reason why they don't, they don't sort of fight, kick back against, against the, the Zeitgeist of Marxism is, is just so that they can conform because otherwise, you know, they will be rejected in society. So but so a lot of people are just because they're not philosophers. I'm took it upon myself to, to be a philosopher. So I have, this is, this is.I have to figure it out, figure it out and see what, look at what, where we are like look at the picture, look at the world to see like where are we, you know, in 2026, you know, for human beings? And most people don't, don't want to do that because they've got a job, they've got to go to work. I'm the one, you know, so I'm taking, taking.Philosophers have to take the world on the shoulders like at least you know, at um.And for nothing, for no, nothing, nothing for no reward, you know, it's just for your own pleasure of, of knowing of, of wanting to know what's good, you know, what status, state of, of, of existence is. So. But then, you know, only now, I think in the middle of your life.For me, I, I now realize that, you know, I've got certain amount of time that I can, I, I can, I can contribute to, you know, intellectually to, and make, make a difference when you're growing up. I think, yeah, Carl Jung said that your life begins when you're 40 and the rest is research.So I think that's, I think that's, that's largely true, you know. So for me it's like then that means I'm, I'm seven years old.

Well, you're a pretty sharp seven year old, I'll tell you that.

And I hope I have enough time to, you know, to implement the ideas that I have formed that I've integrated. But sorry to go back to the question, what was it? So I can just wrap that up Wrap that up.

Number three. It was number three. And then I wanted to follow up with number eight.

Yeah, okay. Yeah. So so I just mentioned like the, the progressive. The liberal. The progressive. What you call the progressives and conservatives.I like, I use those two like opposites or not opposites, they're the same. But yeah, camps you know, the main duels like mind and body or mystic and muscle and spirit, you know, so that's. And they switch you know, so it's.Oh but but but they are the. I think the muscle side. They. They're the, the looters you know, they they use force government taxes. Whereas and the other side is, is the.So it's the, the modern liberal. Modern liberalism, modern liberals and then it's the, the conservative what's the other. So we call.We can call them like you know, the mystic, the, the Christian nationalists.

Christian nationalists. What are you, what are you trying to, where are you trying to reach liberals?

Yeah yeah, that's probably like a, a term that resonate. So yeah. So it's. I'm just trying to. I'm just trying to find. I always try to look at like the dualities and try to find neat terms. Neat what?Neat terms for each side that, that, that are congruent, you know. So but, but I'm talking, but I'm just. We're talking about like the, the, the religion the religious side and the secular version of. Of. Of.Of altruism and then the religious, the non secular version of altruism. It's so so, so the, so so they they actually like the double sided coin, you know, the one side of the same coin.And so so so the modern liberals are actually the same. They're just competing you know with, with the other side for that whim. For, for the, for to have the, to have the power to. To. To.To go by their whims. So they want. It's like the, the. The hunger for power is. Is really what I think what it is. So that.So they, they don't believe that there's a rational morality. So because they don't. So. So. So they don't think so they, they. They've already given up on on that idea because they don't have irrational.They're irrational. They. They're. They're anti life. So so obviously they, they think that the whole universe is is a conspiracy against them.They hate reason and logic because logic is a dictator to them. You see. And it's the same thing with the Christians because it is a dictator to to. To reality Is. It is.

Is a.

Is a cruel dictator to. To somebody who wants to escape it.

Right?

So. So if you align yourself with reason, now you're all of a sudden like a dictator because. Because you're, You're.

You're.

You're honest. You know, you can't be honest. You know, you got to be. You. You know, you can't to them. So. So that's, It's. That's how. That's how. How it looks.

But.

But they both. So. So the Christians just use. They. They use. They've been using Christianity faith to get people, you know, to go along with this.This myth of religion from the Bible. And then you have today the postmodernists, like Roland Barthes, that's his name, Roland Barthes, French semiotician. He wrote mythology.And it was basically his idea was that capitalism and all the. Is a myth and all the things like the signals. So signs. Semiotics is like the science of signs.And so he was looking simply at signs of like, at the artifacts of civilization, such as, like, example could be French wine. And then he would call it, you know, French sophistication or charm, you know, or some type of abstraction that was. That it signified. And it was.It was like. So it was. It was not a real thing to him. So he kind of. He basically took. He. He didn't say that. That there's like a.This beautiful paradise of heaven out there. He said that this. This world that we're in is. Is actually. You're actually an animal, like a savage.And, and all this beautiful stuff, capitalism, beautiful cars and luxury, you know, clothes and everything like that is just a mess. And it's. You're actually just a beast and a savage. You know, looking at yourself, you know, trying to be civilized, but you're actually.You're actually like a. Just. Just a sat. Just. Just like a dog, you know, like an animal, sort of like a. You know, what I mean is that was his. His sense of life.You realize that this is the concept of the sense of life, and I think that's what they have in common. And so the, The. The. That. That subconscious metaphysics is what we're dealing with. It's.When a sense of life is formed, it's the subconscious conviction of man's nature.

Martin, you'll have to cut this out because my battery is all. But I don't have it plugged in, so my juice is all but gone. The only other thing.I'll end this, if I may, by just today, our guest has been Marshall Quinn.He is an author on Substack and he struggling artist and we wish him well and probably have him back for some more discussion on some of his other great articles. So Marshall, thanks for coming today and thanks for manning the foxhole with us.

Yeah, and Marshall, could you end also again to point out your name and where they find you on Substech and thanks again for signing up for an account on TrueFans so I could add you to the split to this episode also so they could follow you there. And yeah, send constructive feedback on this episode, please.

Yes, I look forward to listening to it again. Hopefully. I'm sure I might have made some mistakes, you know, so.But writing is, is much, you know, try to, try to be more sort of confident with, with the writing aspect goes out.But obviously, you know, when you're talking about stuff and you know, you know, it's a lot of, there's a lot of processing going in your mind, like going along, you know, both.And so you can sometimes look at something later and go, oh, you know, need to sort of make an amendment there, you know, so, but, but yeah, no, that was, it was pleasant to, to meet you guys and I, I appreciate the goodwill. Yeah, it's our pleasure.

It's our pleasure. Very good.

So thank you very much and talk to.

Sam. Sa.